tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post3749667418048520373..comments2024-03-26T00:37:34.943+01:00Comments on Venezuela News And Views: Venezuelan overseas: a maracucho at the helm of MITDanielhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12128609182544333477noreply@blogger.comBlogger59125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-86524219403639864382012-05-23T20:55:13.963+02:002012-05-23T20:55:13.963+02:00Douglas, your ample experience and historical traj...Douglas, your ample experience and historical trajectory certainly does enrich the discussion. And yes, I can well imagine that the 'Colegio de Ingenieros', like the 'Colegio de Médicos', is more of a social and political club than an information-rich professional organization. On the other hand, don't be too harsh on the Venezuelan model. As someone with long-ago memberships in trade associations and the Board of Trade (in Canada), I can tell you that the political and social club aspects were very strong in these, as well.sydnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-2832136535255019132012-05-20T18:54:44.053+02:002012-05-20T18:54:44.053+02:00* Membership in the "Colegio de Ingenieros&q...* Membership in the "Colegio de Ingenieros", was a completely different mater. These where more like social and political clubs that professional trade organizations. Elections where very political just as in public universities. Dedication to professional matters was very low and I consider them to be more obstacles to the technical development of the profession with very few exceptions. I never belonged to them or paid a single cent to them, ( I did not need to sing legally binding technical documents which was their "alcabala" moment). In the US trade associations, memberships is not compulsory and if you have to seek certification to practice your profession its usually a technical state level requirement with a one time fee when you certify or re-certify. Associations are about technical development of the organizations and politics is limited to lobbying for big themes for the association, (for example smart grids for Electrical Engineers).<br />I hope my two-cents worth helps enrich the discussion.<br />(end of second and final part))<br />Douglas NovoDouglas Novonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-83946414272248548132012-05-20T18:53:33.208+02:002012-05-20T18:53:33.208+02:00My congratulations to Rafael Rief. A jewish frien...My congratulations to Rafael Rief. A jewish friend of mine, (no longer in Venezuela), knew him from his Maracaibo days and has only fond memories of him; bright, unassuming and a warm human being whether speaking in Spanish or Yiddish. Venezuela once used to be the land of opportunity and freedom for many, educated or not. No longer, the reverse brain drain will take a very long time to compensate, oil not withstanding.<br />Regarding the "revalida" issue I may be able to share a different version of the problem from the point of view of my own expereineces in the 80's after graduating from Georgia Tech with a degree in Industrial and Systems Engineering. I was not a "Fundayacucho becado" but many of my friends and contemporaries at the time were. Based on all the comments I've heard I will give my bullet points of the experience below:<br />* I was an Aerospace Engineering mayor for a year before switching when I realized that Venezuela would never amount to much in the field and I wanted to work and live in Venezuela, (particularly in Maracaibo!). There was some connection between the national development plans of the day and the Fundayacucho allotment of careers if I recall then so there where grandisoe plans to develop an endogenous aircraft building industry but like so much state planning it never amounted to much.<br />* Although there was very little coordination with the Venezuelan universities regarding "revalida" arrangements there was some coordination regarding technical career needs in the country. Like so many things in Venezuela a few local successes did not compensate for the final failure in time at the end.<br />* It never ceased to amaze me how divorced Venezuelan, (at least public), universities where of the business world around them. I never heard of career fairs to help graduates find jobs. However Fundaayacucho did coordinate for some big venezuelan companies to go to US career fairs at schools where there where important contingents of venezuelan students in technical careers, (at least in the late 70s and early 80s). The one I remember most was PDVSA which was in all of them very aggresively.<br />* Once back home the revalida issue came to the forefront and if you were already employed companies handled it differently. I remember PDVSA would pay your "Colegio" dues as a fringe benefit and they would arrange with public universities to have special revalida courses made in their training facilities. I made my revalida courses in La Salina, (east coast of Lake Maracaibo), together with people from ENELVEN, CORPOZULIA, PEQUIVEN and of course PDVSA, (I never worked directly with PDVSA but was employed at the time by a marine services contractor which found a place for me in those classes). Seen from that point of view the revalida experience was very positive, the teachers had mostly US post-graduate degrees and we had many points in common. Professional discussions about the development of the country where not uncommon and the classes where made useful by the discussions we had more than by the actual material reviewed. The whole process was crowned by a "Tesis, (final year thesis required of all venezuelan college graduates) which usually was selected to help advance a local need or problem identified , either by us or by the university teachers. Of course all of this was in the early 80s. Although I know PDVSA had a national program I don't know how successful it was in other areas.<br />(end of first part)<br />Douglas NovoDouglas Novonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-55311410525640360572012-05-18T22:41:20.361+02:002012-05-18T22:41:20.361+02:00Dear A. Barreda,
you asked: "Who'd be st...Dear A. Barreda,<br /><br />you asked: "Who'd be stupid enough to come to Venezuela to earn peanuts and risk his skin instead of staying in any other country with a nice income and in a safe environment?"<br /><br />I answer: My husband (middle-aged, EU-citizen) was stupid enough to do that. He is bipolar. He made that decision in an acute episode of mania. Sad, very sad, but true. I pray that he comes back home...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-91082087920699763042012-05-18T21:07:09.222+02:002012-05-18T21:07:09.222+02:00Correction: I don't see boogeymen in every rev...Correction: I don't see boogeymen in every revalidation or certification process, in serious disciplines that require broadly-based public trust, if not legal protection.Sydnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-47312160387295123862012-05-18T21:00:58.317+02:002012-05-18T21:00:58.317+02:00@ SYD.
Let me rephrase, It is a shame that the cou...@ SYD.<br />Let me rephrase, It is a shame that the country does not set the proper conditions to attract good professionals, and so many from Venezuela (Cuba, Canada and other Countries) have to find GLORY outside of their “Suelo Patrio”.<br />Like it better??? <br />Look I don’t disagree with that portion of the comment, I think Open Markets and Competition is the best way to attract the best and brightest. Not rules and regulations that obligate you to come back to the country, or re-pay somehow the scholarship, etc.<br />In fact U.S. Universities graduate thousands of students from other countries and don’t ask them to stay or do social work in U.S. or any other crazy socialist idea, for the good of the community. Instead U.S. offers one of the most open and competitive markets for almost all professional areas. The result, the best ones usually stay, or go to the next best competitive market.<br />So let’s grab lunch..!!!BETOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14867940620631765423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-71934727624707043332012-05-18T20:34:30.156+02:002012-05-18T20:34:30.156+02:00yes, I agree. The sky is blue. Let's do lunch....yes, I agree. The sky is blue. Let's do lunch.<br /><br />I don't think it's a shame that so many professionals from different parts of the world, even from the so-called first world, have to find glory outside their home country. I think it's a good thing. New ideas. It's also a practical necessity in some fields for any number of reasons, economic, principally, but also psychologically.<br /><br />In Canada, you have many actors who rarely get praised in their own country so they go to Hollywood and make it big. You have nurses that trained in the Cdn system, but either don't want to practice here, or there's not enough "cupo", so they get certified and go to the US. In the teaching professions, there is a limited "cupo", so the newly-trained who don't want to go through years of substitute teaching, go for 4-year contracts in Korea. If you study pretrochemical engineering, say, in Nova Scotia, and there's a limit to the job opportunities in that province, you go to Alberta, or elsewhere around the world. This is not a big deal when one is in their 20's or 30's. Long ago, I gained post-grad accreditation in business, at McGill (in Quebec), and I knew from the outset that my language skills in joual (the local lingo in a newly politicized environment) would add an extra barrier; so I went to Ontario. My brother trained as a surgeon, in Canada (after his medical degree in the US); he decided he didn't want to work in a socialized medical system, so he wrote his boards and got accepted in the midwest (US). I used to meet many Asians (in the financial sector) during the 1980s, who would flip jobs, from Toronto to HongKong and back again, each time at a higher salary; they were skilled for both markets. I've known many Indians who have limited employment "cupo" in their own countries, so they to come to Canada and start again, but on a familiar base. All these people are not afraid of starting again and of learning new ways. <br /><br />I don't think that any government grant, or scholarship, has to find people jobs. It's outrageous to think otherwise, to think that one needs a nanny. If the government wants people to stay in "el suelo patrio" then they will necessarily have to restrict the areas of study for which the funds are made available, so that the disciplines match local market availabilities. In Vzla, that would mean no funds for studying aerospace engineering, or ice fishing. Y punto.<br /><br />Insofar as certification is concerned, clearly it's not for everyone. But it is vital at certain levels in certain fields. And no, I don't see boogeymen in every revalidation or certification process.sydnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-76100389407831211042012-05-18T17:56:27.232+02:002012-05-18T17:56:27.232+02:00@ SYD.
Wow, I guess there must be a reason why I’m...@ SYD.<br />Wow, I guess there must be a reason why I’m not certified, must be I’m not as smart as I think, since I have No clue what you are talking about.<br />My First Comment was, “I agree with DANIEL” meaning, it is a shame that so many professionals from Venezuela (and Cuba, and other Countries) have to find GLORY outside of their “Suelo Patrio”.<br />Don’t get me wrong, that fact does not diminish his accomplishments at all, on the contrary.<br />Therefore, I guess we can also say that the sky is blue.???BETOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14867940620631765423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-27600311136215350202012-05-18T17:56:17.223+02:002012-05-18T17:56:17.223+02:00Beto,
Certification is a mafia in the US.It cause...Beto,<br /><br />Certification is a mafia in the US.It causes people to spend beaucoup money and time jumping through hoops instead of concentrating on the task at hand.Do I need to hire a certified interior decorator to order my Feng Shui? I don't think I will, even if required by law.<br /><br />Personally I trust my own instincts when it comes to hiring a professional, though I try (on principle and when possible) not to hire certified anything, otherwise I might end up with a German teacher who cannot speak proper German, or a plumber who charges 200 $ to do a job worth 45, but some expert hoop jumper instead :)<br /><br />However the proper certifications are sometimes absolutely necessary.<br /><br />There are different levels of requirements with different areas of expertise, and one must be careful not to throw them all into one huge pile, and instead evaluate each case by its own merit.This is where bureaucracy often fails.<br /><br /><br />Are there requirements necessary to some professions? Yes of course, and some things have to be overseen, but the most important point that I see is that anything done in a doctrinaire and dogmatic way tends to be unfair, and end up with inferior results.firepighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15158275219887987252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-21899679637260079842012-05-18T17:37:03.618+02:002012-05-18T17:37:03.618+02:00AIO,
Exactly.AIO,<br /><br />Exactly.firepighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15158275219887987252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-17800483762436079062012-05-18T17:22:50.058+02:002012-05-18T17:22:50.058+02:00BETO: this post is about Rafael Reif, a man who to...BETO: this post is about Rafael Reif, a man who took the bull by the horns, and "entró por la puerta grande" of his profession, in a country and language that was not his own. He did not do so by cutting corners here and there. He did not do so by flaunting nor disrespecting convention. And I strongly suspect he never had to pretend to be what he was not. Reif had the vision to know what was required of him, over the long haul, and he met those challenges, brick by brick. Today, he has the trust of his Board of Governors and academia at large.<br /><br />Zuckerberg, Gates and the TV repairman are completely different kettles of fish. Or as I learned in grade school: one of these things is not like the other.sydnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-32956791037996039672012-05-18T17:03:35.987+02:002012-05-18T17:03:35.987+02:00Miguel, if one's parents cannot foot the bill ...Miguel, if one's parents cannot foot the bill of studies (in the US), there are alternative pockets of funding. For one, there are numerous scholarships that are untapped on an annual basis. One has to know where to look for those scholarships of relevance. And one has to apply, naturally presenting bona fide credentials and demonstrated merit. In the case of Rafael Reif, who has had the chops to reach the top of his profession, I can imagine that if his fellowship did not provide enough funding, he might tapped into one of these scholarships. He might also have tapped the advantage of his Jewish connection. For, as one young Jewish man told me, when we were discussing the March of the Living (arranged freebie journeys for youth through Jewish Holocaust terrain): "There's an insane amount of money available to young Jews ...".sydnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-85306164173347823172012-05-18T16:52:47.571+02:002012-05-18T16:52:47.571+02:00@Mr. Norton.
ABET is a private Institution..! I d...@Mr. Norton. <br />ABET is a private Institution..! I don't have a certification from them, and I work for Microsoft in the U.S.A. and have worked for Other SNP100 companies before. You don't need that certification, at all. I don't even have a Microsoft certify Professional "certification" yet it does not matter, because I do my Job and Do it well. From ABET’s web page: ” ABET is a nonprofit, non-governmental organization that accredits college and university programs in the disciplines of applied science, computing, engineering, and engineering technology” also “ABET accreditation, which is voluntary and achieved through a peer review process”<br />Today's Fresh Multibillionaire Zuckerberg, did not finish Harvard... So what??? Most of the guys who worked there at the beginning actually left school to pursue Facebook..!<br />Look If I want to have an electric re-wiring on my House, I can choose to have an engineer that is certified by any of the existing “organizations” but it is not required, also It will be more expensive, because that Engineer had to pay for the “Certification” so they will charge more.<br />Tell you what, most of the guys who come to your house to fix the Phone cable, or the Internet connection, don’t even have a technical degree, or the guy that re-wire alarms etc. If you don’t believe me, ask one of them next time they come to your house.BETOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14867940620631765423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-5056672402435162042012-05-18T15:43:27.183+02:002012-05-18T15:43:27.183+02:00Yes, Ed Norton, thank you for that information. T...Yes, Ed Norton, thank you for that information. The differences I see between the systems are two, and they are both key. First, not every single engineer needs to be certified. Obviously, a certified engineer could have more value at times than non-certified, but it's not obligatory, and the decision to become certified would be up to the individual. Second, while the government requires the certfication, it's not the entity which makes the decision. That's left to subject-matter experts, who truly have an incentive to "police" themselves.AIOnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-23780860996344928152012-05-18T14:47:11.937+02:002012-05-18T14:47:11.937+02:00Thank you, Mr. Norton, for clarifying the sketchy ...Thank you, Mr. Norton, for clarifying the sketchy information provided by those wishing to stretch a point in order to make politics. And yes, in Canada, only a licensed engineer can provide industry, municipalities, and the public with its legal stamp of review/approval on information, drawings and plans, these then becoming legal documents. The stamp states "licensed professional engineer", the province of jurisdiction, the name of the engineer, his or her number, and provides a place for signature and date. I'm talking about the stamp from civil and structural engineers, with whom I have had direct experience.sydnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-84075933750943907762012-05-18T08:43:35.157+02:002012-05-18T08:43:35.157+02:00BETO and AIO,
Your comments about revalidation of...BETO and AIO,<br /><br />Your comments about revalidation of foreign engineering degrees in the US are not entirely correct. <br /><br />In the US, only a licensed or registered Professional Engineer can perform engineering services to the public (there are exceptions for some industry and government engineering jobs which do not have direct contact with the public). Only licensed engineers can take legal responsibility for their work.<br /><br />In order to become licensed, your degree must have been issued by an ABET certified school, or you must have it revalidated. Only a handful of foreign schools are ABET-certified, so in general a foreign engineering degree must be revalidated before you can apply for licensing as a Professional Engineer in the US (there are add'l requirements such as exams, experience, etc.). I believe Canada has similar requirements.<br /><br />When I had my USB engineering degree revalidated, the evaluators deemed it equivalent to a degree from an ABET school, but I know of cases where degrees from other schools (in Venezuela and other countries) were not considered equivalent and the applicants were required to take additional courses at a US college or university.<br /><br />Of course, you can work as an engineer in the US w/o having a Prof. Eng. license or an engineering degree from an ABET school. In fact, you don't even need an engineering degree (e.g., network engineers, software engineers, even building maintenance and sanitation "engineers"), but in order to sign engineering reports and drawings, and to have the same "rights" you have in Venezuela as a member of the Colegio de Ingenieros, you will need a professional engineering license which will most likely require revalidation of a foreign engineering degree.Ed Nortonhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_Carneynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-58228592769127358912012-05-18T03:27:52.283+02:002012-05-18T03:27:52.283+02:00Thanks Daniel for this tribute to the Job of Rafae...Thanks Daniel for this tribute to the Job of Rafael Reif, who gave us motive to be really proud and to celebrate a truth achievement.<br /><br />JuanJuan CTTnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-39868962176125117572012-05-18T02:25:14.705+02:002012-05-18T02:25:14.705+02:00research assistantship = fellowship, no, Miguel?research assistantship = fellowship, no, Miguel?sydnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-49901201353258908732012-05-18T01:31:58.385+02:002012-05-18T01:31:58.385+02:00@Syd, Yeah Venezuela is not the only one, but seei...@Syd, Yeah Venezuela is not the only one, but seeing as Venezuelan Tax Dollars is being used someone would expect that somehow that these people would return the investment of the government to the country.<br /><br />I know for a fact that there are several countries in the world, not only government but private institutions as well, that give out scholarships for research, with the condition that they shall return to theirs country and apply what they learnt, this is not a necessary condition, the person can stay in the same country or go to someplace else. What they gain with that?, the research that the person did, which is gold for them and should be for us too. What is gaining Venezuela with Fundayacucho NOTHING apparently.<br /><br />IMHO, I see great benefit if the person choose (with Fundayacucho) a career that you can not easily find in Venezuela, or when the field doesn't exist at all. Because we would have more chance to speed up the development of the country. I believe that's why Fundayacucho was created in the first place.Juan CTTnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-13979119300692079092012-05-17T23:10:02.355+02:002012-05-17T23:10:02.355+02:00There are many fantastic Venezuelan scientists tha...There are many fantastic Venezuelan scientists that many people have never heard of. There is of course Ignacio Rodriguez (noted above) who I have the fortune to know. His brother Bernardo who has worked in Venezuela is a fantastic scientists too:<br /><br />http://www.researchgate.net/researcher/42959208_Bernardo_Rodriguez-Iturbe<br /><br />I used to joke with my friend Jose Esparza that he was the third most famous maracucho scientist after Fernandez Moran and Ignacio, but Jose has gone far on his own right and is now at the Bill Gates Foundation:<br /><br />http://www.impatientoptimists.org/Authors/E/Jose-Esparza<br /><br />or Reinaldo Dipolo, who has an impressive career in Venezuela (this was written in the 80's):<br /><br />http://www.ivic.ve/galeriaemeritos/index.php?mod=dipolo.htmMiguelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09531734875286475335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-61762167561801685392012-05-17T23:02:35.478+02:002012-05-17T23:02:35.478+02:00You sure it was not his brother Jose (Pepe)?You sure it was not his brother Jose (Pepe)?Miguelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09531734875286475335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-61221097604536019742012-05-17T23:01:31.619+02:002012-05-17T23:01:31.619+02:00I meant March of 1974 not 1973I meant March of 1974 not 1973Miguelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09531734875286475335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-792475461361259382012-05-17T23:00:32.675+02:002012-05-17T23:00:32.675+02:00I am late to this, kudos to Dr. Reif, agreat Venez...I am late to this, kudos to Dr. Reif, agreat Venezuelan, his speech is pricelss:<br /><br />http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2012/rafael-reif-prepared-remarks-0516.html<br /><br />Let me note, that I doubt he had a Fundayacucho scholarship. Dr. Reif began his studies in September 1974, which means he was accepted by March of 1973 and had to have some form of financing by the acceptance date in April 1974. Fundayacucho was created in June 1974. If my memory serves me right, Fundayacucho started sending people to the US in 1975, mostly undergraduate at the beginning. <br /><br />Dr. Reif likely was given a research assistantship by Stanford, something quite common in sciences and engineering, while it could also be a teaching assistantship, the fact that he finished an experimental Ph.D. thesis in 4 years suggests he started in a lab right away. It could also have been a scholarship from Simon Bolivar where he spent one year, but the short time at USB suggests that this was not the case.Miguelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09531734875286475335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-73390082759813337792012-05-17T20:23:50.259+02:002012-05-17T20:23:50.259+02:00BETO, that is an EXCELLENT point. When nobody'...BETO, that is an EXCELLENT point. When nobody's health/safety is directly at stake (note that I say directly), the government is not involved. Heck, I think even the bar exam is run by a private institution, and not the government; I wouldn't be surprised if doctors work more or less the same way. For pretty much everything else, the only "validation" study needed is by the employer. If the person can do the job, then why does it matter where they learned what they did? They could be self-taught at home, and it wouldn't matter otherwise. (I actually know someone who got his black belt in karate that way, believe it or not. Never took a class, or even had another belt, but he qualified, so what else mattered?)<br /><br />This is where the indirect health issue comes into play. If a lousy engineer is designing airplanes, and one crashes because of his/her mistake, it's the company that will be on the hook for liability. So they have a very strong incentive to "validate" the employee - not their education, but their ability. Government interference not needed.AIOnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-863572384262983402012-05-17T18:25:52.704+02:002012-05-17T18:25:52.704+02:00Another Venezuelan educator making the (local) new...Another Venezuelan educator making the (local) news...<br />One of my best friends from college is a HS teacher in Florida and one of his students got selected as a Presidential Scholar (pretty big deal). In his essay, he names Carlos, his chemistry teacher, as the person that has inspired him to succeed.<br />As happy as I'm for Carlos getting this type of recognition, this is another example of the failures of Venezuela and the Galileo program to keep its talent at home after spending millions in our education...<br /><br />http://www.local10.com/news/3-S-Fla-students-named-Presidential-Scholars/-/1717324/13408896/-/p1946mz/-/index.htmlRobertohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00801432826964358871noreply@blogger.com