tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post4018758913611011580..comments2024-03-18T19:50:24.376+01:00Comments on Venezuela News And Views: Who will win the 2012 primaries (in Venezuela, not the US of A)Danielhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12128609182544333477noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-76740957097863684142011-05-02T01:34:00.789+02:002011-05-02T01:34:00.789+02:00Great post. First time I read your blog.Great post. First time I read your blog.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-57162529410656766202011-04-20T00:51:54.529+02:002011-04-20T00:51:54.529+02:00roy
i can assure you that san felipe and porlamar...roy<br /><br />i can assure you that san felipe and porlamar are more distant than the mere caribbean would suggest.....Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12128609182544333477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-55475202254938986342011-04-20T00:47:50.253+02:002011-04-20T00:47:50.253+02:00After re-reading this thread, Daniel, it occurs to...After re-reading this thread, Daniel, it occurs to me, that you are assuming that each of the parties can actually deliver the votes of their "constituency". Again, with the caveat of this being my impressions from Nueva Esparta, I don't see that sort of party loyalty here. The people I talk to will vote for the candidate they think can win, regardless of the party. Is it really so different on the mainland?Roynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-17839576656185596862011-04-19T14:57:48.140+02:002011-04-19T14:57:48.140+02:00Daniel,
Collectivism and individualism are not op...Daniel,<br /><br />Collectivism and individualism are not opposites, when they are understood.<br /><br />I understand what UCC is saying.Before a person can unite with others he first has to become an individual.When people unite without developing their individuality there is nothing or little to unite with.This is what usually happens in a primitive society:Unity without individual consciousness.In modern times we are going from tribal mentality to a more highly individual consciousness.<br /><br />One cannot speak of altruism without personal identity.<br /><br />However when an individual more developed , then he/she can choose to work for the common good while maintaining a high level of individualism.I see this in my own town where quite a few very developed moral people decide to give a lot of their time and money to others in a spirit that comes from their personal consciousness.Rich people donated the football stadium and sponsor foreign students plus many other generous endeavors.Many Middle class folks give part of their salaries to local charities every month or year instead of going on expensive vacations.The poor help the poor in times of need. etc. etc.<br /><br />Our town would not function as well as it does without the kindness of its individuals.<br /><br />If we try to become the collective from the viewpoint of poor individual consciousness(the tribal mentality) then there will be no true collective because the collective will not be made up of the many individuals it supposedly contains, but rather from a group of people whose identities are blurred with that of the group.Thus this tribal like group cannot represent the power or fullness of each individual.<br /><br />So on a more developed level, true individualism becomes true collectivism, therefore the thought: individualism IS collectivism.firepigettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17348890269608169297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-1808530572983799662011-04-19T05:39:38.444+02:002011-04-19T05:39:38.444+02:00UCC
unfortunately that idea worked at caveman tim...UCC<br /><br />unfortunately that idea worked at caveman time. but today if you want roads and be able to throw bombs over qaddafy you need to include some common good.Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12128609182544333477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-55397310985459344912011-04-19T03:34:15.785+02:002011-04-19T03:34:15.785+02:00Individualism IS the common good.Individualism IS the common good.GeronLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13145189615256636055noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-38975884941306436832011-04-19T00:38:27.026+02:002011-04-19T00:38:27.026+02:00"how things should evolve if these opposition..."how things should evolve if these opposition leaders had a tad of common sense..."<br /><br />Dare to dream, Daniel... LOL<br /><br />On another note, what indications have you seen to indicate Diego Arria is even considering entering the race? Of everyone mentioned, he is probably the best qualified for the job, but his electability is a BIG question mark.Roynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-7499749030915362212011-04-19T00:09:36.411+02:002011-04-19T00:09:36.411+02:00"I can beat Chavez" is necessary. So is:..."I can beat Chavez" is necessary. So is: "No revenge, we will look forward." <br /><br />It is a characteristic of totalitarian parties and countries that "everyone" is compromised just a little bit at least. It becomes hard to break with one's past allegiances if there is fear that those allegiances will be publicized or prosecuted.<br /><br />The opposition needs LOTS of ex-Chavistas.jeffry househttp://jeffryhouse.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-16053405997702407192011-04-19T00:08:48.228+02:002011-04-19T00:08:48.228+02:00Roy
You raise points but they are not really the ...Roy<br /><br />You raise points but they are not really the point here :)<br /><br />This post is about giving a general outline of the situation and how things should evolve if these opposition leaders had a tad of common sense to form sub alliances in order to win the primary. In other words this post is part theory and part reality (people can decide which % of which....)<br /><br />For example if you read the interview of Ramos Allup today in El Universal you can read that he is even considering conversations with COPEI !!!!<br /><br />The best candidate to beat Chavez will be the one that wins the primary but it cannot be decided before the primary. People are simply too impatient and having that person right now would not speed up the end of Chavez constitutional term.... that is why there is a primary campaign, so people can figure out who they think is best instead of basing their choices on an impression or a "but he said that yesterday!" Just like in the US :)Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12128609182544333477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-71592007773669492552011-04-18T22:28:49.396+02:002011-04-18T22:28:49.396+02:00Excellent post and very informative, Daniel. Howe...Excellent post and very informative, Daniel. However, although I bow to your superior knowledge, I am not so sure that the traditional party affiliations and ideology are so important in this primary election. Before explaining, I do offer a caveat that my experience is in Nueva Esparta, which is populated by a mixture of all the original parties and doesn't exhibit the regional polarization in which some parties hold sway over particular regions.<br /><br />In the discussions I have with people here, it about is not about ideology, so much as:<br /><br />First and foremost: Who can beat Chavez?<br /><br />And only secondly: Who can roll up their sleeves and make the country function again?<br /><br />I think that the best candidate, and the most likely winner will be the one that defines themselves best as the "Anti-Chavez". In a primary election, we will not see a lot of votes from the apathetic. Most votes will come from the strongly anti-Chavista side of the political spectrum. Thus, the successful candidate will be the one who brands him/herself as best and most viable Anti-Chavez. There is always time after the primary to move toward inclusiveness and offer an olive branch to the disaffected Chavistas.<br /><br />Based on that, the nomination is still Rodonsky's to lose. Arria is an outside possibility, but I haven't seen any indications, yet, of him throwing his hat in the ring. Leopoldo Lopez has lost a lot of ground, and I don't see him catching up. MCM is a dark horse. She would have to do something remarkable to convince people she can go the distance.<br /><br />So, from what I can see, the candidate that will win the primary is the one that best delivers the message: "I can and will beat Chavez."<br /><br />I hope that is not an overly simplistic view, but that is what I see from where I am.Roynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-88656431847124722272011-04-18T21:32:49.849+02:002011-04-18T21:32:49.849+02:00Excellent post.I learned a lot about the history o...Excellent post.I learned a lot about the history of the parties.<br /><br />Where ideas are restricted through popular pressure, there can be no debate.Where only the Left has THE voice there can be no democracy.<br />Where people don't feel free to think ' outside the box', true intellectualism is scarce...<br /><br />and as long as people falsely continue to tie all morality to the Left for political gain, people will loathe to be on the Right.Most people want to be good and to look good in the eyes of others.<br /><br />End of game.firepigettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17348890269608169297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-28857777174284917852011-04-18T17:35:11.157+02:002011-04-18T17:35:11.157+02:00Thanks for confirming Daniel.
Indeed, Uslar did ...Thanks for confirming Daniel. <br /><br />Indeed, Uslar did good (in Caracas), an almost unknown quantity in the rest of the country. You have covered what I would call as "provincialism of the capital" syndrome, that affects/has affected everyone, aside from AD and COPEI. <br /><br />Uslar was, IMO, too much of a man, an intellectual, and a free thinker for Venezuela. Centuries will come to pass before someone like him has a real shot at gaining power in Venezuela, and that is the reason why the country will continue leading the league of backwater africanised nations.<br /><br />Sadder still, there's no one in the public sphere of the country today "que le llegue por los tobillos" a Uslar. The intellectuals of today are joke, pathetic attempts of "free thinking men" that have contributed nothing, nowhere.ABhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10014152460206926913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-36739469382145002972011-04-18T15:58:04.065+02:002011-04-18T15:58:04.065+02:00This was one hell of a post.
Well played, sir.This was one hell of a post. <br /><br />Well played, sir.geha714https://www.blogger.com/profile/12680077918707375990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-8975577482158441472011-04-18T14:51:08.814+02:002011-04-18T14:51:08.814+02:00AB
I cannot write all Venezuelan political histor...AB<br /><br />I cannot write all Venezuelan political history in a single post but I can try to give details as needed.<br /><br />You are right, Arturo Uslar Pietri had nothing to do with COPEI and I have a feeling he never liked them very much. What happened is that in 1963 he run on what was clearly right of AD and pretty much all ganged against him as anti "pueblo", unfairly.<br /><br />As an ex minister, as an intellectual authority, what happened to him is a little bit what happened to Vargas Llosa in Peru: it was all used against him and the populism rabble was placed as a virtue, as the only honorable political position.<br /><br />As such Uslar who was given a chance at the beginning slowly faded and did well only in Caracas. He swore never to go into politics after that.<br /><br />COPEI learned vicariously the lesson and became as populist as AD was.<br /><br />PS: and this is yet another example that Chavez really did not invent anything, that he is just more AD than AD...Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12128609182544333477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-84149511432302622462011-04-18T14:27:42.727+02:002011-04-18T14:27:42.727+02:00This is far more informative than anything one rea...This is far more informative than anything one reads in the Venezuelan paper-based media. A fine post.jeffry househttp://jnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-70235050343810800642011-04-18T12:41:52.803+02:002011-04-18T12:41:52.803+02:00Good post, Daniel. I think you covered all the bas...Good post, Daniel. I think you covered all the bases here.<br /><br />Excellent!Roberto Nhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12693120055439617799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-56943854368941493942011-04-18T11:29:56.969+02:002011-04-18T11:29:56.969+02:00Excellent post Daniel.
Just one question (histor...Excellent post Daniel. <br /><br />Just one question (history): why did you associate Uslar Pietri in 63 with COPEI? As far as I know he ran with his own political "machine", which would become a more "formal" party after 1963.ABhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10014152460206926913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-64027180550547176672011-04-18T03:47:24.156+02:002011-04-18T03:47:24.156+02:00Daniel, I think this is my new favorite post of yo...Daniel, I think this is my new favorite post of yours. Awesome.<br /><br />--torresnoreply@blogger.com