tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post8113566857020024866..comments2024-03-26T00:37:34.943+01:00Comments on Venezuela News And Views: The vote in Spain falls mainly in the plain centerDanielhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12128609182544333477noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-29259659399553999572011-11-21T13:52:08.179+01:002011-11-21T13:52:08.179+01:00There are two weakness in the indignados/occupy WS...There are two weakness in the indignados/occupy WS movements: 1) they're a diverse - even contradictory - mass with totally different points of view. The only thing they all have in common is their dislike for the status quo. 2) Because of the first, i.e. many different/contradictory positions, they cannot decide which course of action they should take. There's no ideology/alternative/ideas to change the status quo, and when someone suggest something (like endorsing a party), they'll be opposed by some guys inside with a different POV. The result is standstill and the following demoralization of even the most enthusiastic indignado.A. Barredahttp://atravesdelabismo.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-75762365447217712412011-11-21T02:42:42.849+01:002011-11-21T02:42:42.849+01:00Francis
Well, I prefer El Pais to Le Monde to ass...Francis<br /><br />Well, I prefer El Pais to Le Monde to assess the Spanish political situation. Thus is the privilege of being bilingual. :)<br /><br />This being said our argument is now rather moot: the results are in and the Indignados effect has been marginal at best. Abstention is not much higher than usual, and the decline of PSOE happened for the direct benefit of UDyP the Basque left and IU. None of these leaders tonight mentioned in any of their speeches the Indignados, not even IU which alluded to them but was very careful not to attribute their increase to them.Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12128609182544333477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-49600370941805109972011-11-20T23:32:24.323+01:002011-11-20T23:32:24.323+01:00Here's a link:
http://www.lemonde.fr/europe/a...Here's a link:<br /><br />http://www.lemonde.fr/europe/article/2011/11/18/courtises-les-indignes-sont-les-trouble-fete-des-elections-legislatives_1605983_3214.html<br /><br />And, clearly, there is nothing vacuous and nihilistic in the protests from Los Indignados. And in my opinion, not support them would be a kind of masochism.Francis Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10386438474826489915noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-13680842832671828452011-11-20T19:50:31.196+01:002011-11-20T19:50:31.196+01:00I don't know if the 'indignados' in Sp...I don't know if the 'indignados' in Spain also use the method of occupation, but,"Participatory Democracy" as defined by many is a tricky concept.<br /><br />One thing is to have demonstrations to get your messages across- with picket signs and interviews- and another thing is to set up tents occupying a public or private space with the threat that you are not leaving until you get your way (whatever this may be). This is not democracy, it is temper tantrums designed to blackmail.<br /><br />The space taken and the businesses affected by this become hostages ; not to speak of the increase in the crime rate resulting from the police being permanently diverted from their regular work.<br /><br /><br />They could demonstrate regularly without permanently occupying.<br /><br />On Spain,it is interesting to see that the people have shown maturity- because often times in moments of crisis, the extremes tend to gain votes whereas in Spain, it seems to be the other way around.<br /><br />firepigettefirepigettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17348890269608169297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-34730376571079505462011-11-20T17:59:54.317+01:002011-11-20T17:59:54.317+01:00the vice-president of the republic, Jaua, said tha...<b>the vice-president of the republic, Jaua, said that "the right will never return to power"</b><br /><br />It must be made perfectly clear to everyone inside and outside Venezuela that when Jaua says that, or the 300 times Chavez and the other henchmen have made similar statements, they don't mean that "the people will never elect 'the right' again in Venezuela", what they mean is that they (i.e., Chavez) will never again allow anyone in "the right" (a.k.a., anyone but Chavez) to be in power again in Venezuela.<br /><br />Every time Chavez and his henchmen say something like that, it is perfectly clear that the will of the people in Venezuela is of absolutely no concern to them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-12172785079274011822011-11-20T17:43:12.654+01:002011-11-20T17:43:12.654+01:00Francis
I went back to El Pais to check for indig...Francis<br /><br />I went back to El Pais to check for indignados voting actions and I did not find any ringing endorsement. In fact more abstention and protests at voting stations.<br /><br />http://politica.elpais.com/politica/2011/11/19/actualidad/1321737431_089399.html<br /><br />http://politica.elpais.com/politica/2011/11/18/actualidad/1321637243_071873.html<br /><br />In other words, a sweet navel gazing anarchy which may be very romantic but smacks of wasted opportunity.Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12128609182544333477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-80319087633309664262011-11-20T16:44:23.737+01:002011-11-20T16:44:23.737+01:00Francis
I mean some link so I can add it to the p...Francis<br /><br />I mean some link so I can add it to the post as an errata of sorts. Thanks!Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12128609182544333477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-43691658150289579792011-11-20T16:41:02.402+01:002011-11-20T16:41:02.402+01:00Francis J.
I must have missed that. I did not fi...Francis J.<br /><br />I must have missed that. I did not find it in El Pais electoral coverage. When was that announced? How formal? If formality is possible.....<br /><br />Still. it would be unsatisfactory because whatever strength they claim to have they should focus it on a single party, just as Quebec did to try to stop the right to gain an absolute majority.Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12128609182544333477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4080946.post-20320340453847000532011-11-20T14:11:57.972+01:002011-11-20T14:11:57.972+01:00Los Indignados have called to vote for regional pa...Los Indignados have called to vote for regional parties or independents.Francis Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10386438474826489915noreply@blogger.com