Least you forgot this factoid while you wonder about way more important things such as the US and European economic crisis, Chavez is still vociferous in his backing of the butchers of Tripoli and Damascus. He dared to receive an emissary from Gaddafi asking him to help in selling Libyan oil one way or the other (thus we can infer that Gaddafi mercenary army is running out of cash), and said that he would never recognize the rebel movement of Benghazi (as if Moammar had ever been democratically elected) [sigh!....]. To add insult to injury he dispatched his foreign minister to the TV to support Assad and state as if nothing that the West was operating a war of aggression on Assad already benefiting form the Libyan training, accusing the West of sabotaging the democratic initiatives of Assad to open participation in Syria. For good measure he reminded us that Syria is at the front of the Arab Reunification, whatever that may mean. Too bad there was no real journalist in front to ask him how Assad progressed on said reunification....
Yes, I know, I know, all of these are really destined to internal consumption of the chavista lumpen, but still... Are Chavez in his henchmen that out of touch with the world? Don't they realize that Lybia and Syria are after all minor locales when the health of the Euro and Dollar is at stake? Is Tripoli really more important than Athens today? Is Chavez not aware that the sooner peace comes back to Libya with a dethroned Gaddafi the sooner the West recovery will/could restart and the price of oil go durably up for Venezuela? Someone should let Chavez know that if Madrid defaults tomorrow, if Gaddafi does not clear out of Tripoli soon, a new economic crisis will come and he will be swept away when oil prices go down to 80, or less.... He can scream all what he wants in favor of Gaddafi and Assad, he is useless and absolutely irrelevant because of his cowardliness in actually doing something real to help these criminals....
Wednesday, August 03, 2011
29 comments:
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I'm enjoying watching NATO get their ass handed to them in Libya. Their sheer incompetence in bombing hospitals and water supplies has turned those who might have supported them against the rebels and back towards Gaddafi.
ReplyDeleteYou are aware that Goldman Sachs "lost" around US$100 billion that Gaddafi had placed with them for investment? That at 3% Libya has the lowest debt to GDP ratio of any country listed? And that Gaddafi had been trying to institute a new gold backed currency for Africa?
Spare us the "butcher of Tripoli" propaganda, please. No one plays nice in that part of the world.
Yes, of course, let's close our eyes to the butcher of Tripoli in his declining months. Let's pretend that he didn't set his air force to bomb unarmed crowds protesting his forty year coup.
ReplyDeleteInstead, let's justify these bombings by some slogan, such as "you can't make an omelette wiout breaking eggs" or "They don't play nice in st part of the world".
As a bonus, since Gaddafi doesn't allow elections, you can assert, without any evidence, that people are turning back towards Gaddafi.
And now, you have a precedent for Carcas, too, if Chavez decides tzo cancel elections and bomb neighbourhoods that support "the oligarchy".
I don't know what to make from both Daniel's post and the comments above. I appreciate your contributions, but here I have the suspicion you are all under the effect of some psychotropic.
ReplyDeleteYou are all of good will and not stupid, so psychotropic it has to be.
So, here I come with the Pravda, the truth.
Gaddafi is one of the worst asshole there is in this moment in Africa and there are a lot of them. There are also very serious issues in such places as Congo and Somalia, Ethiopia and Sudan, but Gaddafi is a hell of a bastard.
If you check out Amnesty International reports through the years, Gaddafi is definitely a big bastard. More importantly: he did support terroristic organisations in many cases; we can discuss about one or the other case (like the Lockerbie one), but there are others where it is more than clear he was to blame;
Now: the West has screwed it big time. The Britons, specially, then the French and the Germans and last but not least the Italians are to a big extent responsible for the mess there is in that place now.
William Hague was so clumsy that he wouldn't have been tolerated in the primary school teams playing international relations in Los Guayos, Venezuela, when I was a child. When he said Gaddafi was going to Venezuela I knew he was screwing it big big time, not only lying, but making it much more difficult that Gaddafi would just give up like that.
The way they and the French and the Dutch have gone about helping or not helping the revolt has been utterly amateuristic.
Who profits from this?
One thing is for sure:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glencore
ExxonMobil
Royal Dutch Shell
BP
Total S.A.
Chevron
PetroChina
ConocoPhillips
those guys have more to do with the mess happening in many places on Earth right now than many think.
And of course, the weapons industry from Germany and Russia and China and Israel and Spain to the top seller, the USA.
Chávez is just a bad clown and a serious criminal towards his country.
kepler
ReplyDeleteif you excuse me, the one on psychotropic drugs might be you. i am not expecting much from astera who, it seems, is about ready to exonerate Mussolini because trains run on time in italy back then.
but you should know well that exxon and co. are not guilty per se. if it were not for the unquenchable thirst for oil of the west, oil companies would not take the gambits they do. yes, they are the hand that throw the stone in lybia and elsewhere but that that hand is attached to the body of the western consumer who wants homes at 22C in august and 24 C in january, who refuse to take a bike for a 1 km ride to buy bread and milk, who is entitled to splendid retirement at 60, holidays to the caribbean included, etc, etc....
m astera
ReplyDeleteif bombs are falling over hospitals in lybia it is because qaddafi refuses to budge. if the creep had wanted to deal with his opposition and take an electoral route, for example, bombs would have stopped falling over tripoli long ago.
i am astounded that you wrote what you did. maybe you should apply for the chavez information office: your style qualifies.
There was a time when Chavez was extremely concerned about his image in Europe as a democratic leader who wanted to help the poor.By opening supporting Assad and Qaddafi,he is showing that he does not care about this anymore.If he doesn't feel the need to hide the fact that he is a dictator,the repression is bound to increase.
ReplyDeleteDes hallucinogènes, that's what I said.
ReplyDeleteDaniel,
I stated it clearly: Gaddafi is and was one of the most notorious criminals in the last decades.
There is no excuse for the crimes he has been committing.
Still, what I am saying is he would not be there if 1) Britain (first and foremost) and other countries (from France, Germany etc on) would not have decided to jump again to bed with him some years ago. Yes, normal consumers do have a role to play, but those companies play a much bigger role in Realpolitik than what you think, and this is not an Astera-esque thing to say.
They have been lobbying heavily everywhere for oil dependency to remain and they have been using those fears about Libya etc very wisely to promote price increases.
I don't think you can watch the following, it's 26 minutes, it would take hours in Venezuela.
It is about petrol and oil prices:
http://www.zdf.de/ZDFmediathek#/beitrag/video/1390292/ZDFzoom:-Die-Sprit-Abzocke
(in German)
The second part is the most interesting, it is about the role the top 5 have on deciding what oil prices would be.
ZDF is not precisely Firepigette's favourite TV channel, but it is worth watching from time to time.
Ignorancia, Daniel, folks, falta de educacion, that's all it is, that's why Chabruto gets away with anything, even applauding infamous rats like Gaddafi.
ReplyDeleteYou sometimes act so surprised... Indio es indio, chamo, y la mitad de los Venezolanos no saben ni leer, oublie l'histoire, la geographie ou la literature. IGNORANCIA, Indio grande domina indio chico, la democracia "triunfa", tristemente, hasta que el 60% del "pueblo" apreda a medio "pensar" por si mismo.
Sledge,
ReplyDeleteGermans were among the most educated in 1933. They couldn't get rid of Hitler alone. In fact: there were just courageous attempts to get rid of him by a few, but no massive marches against him.
It doesn't have to do with "Indio".
And your comment is very racist.
Greetings. (I promise to only post once)
ReplyDeleteDaniel, I agree with every word and tone of your article.
Kepler-I like some of what you said- except your attack on Daniel-
Firepigegge-Well said-"he doesn't feel the need to hide the fact that he is a dictator"
Truth is- Chavez is not a "player' in the Libya or Syria situations-but-wants to inject himself and of course-has already said these scoundrels are his "brothers"- the Venezuelan people never accepted this.Only the clown -fool-chavistas who will say or do anything their Master says...
Without any intention to disturb the peace of some people's Universe, I would like to remind folks that each image we have in our minds cannot stand by itself.It is, after all part of the larger promenade, and so is part of a relational Universe ( as Daniel also mentioned in his above comment to Kepler).
ReplyDeleteKepler.. you're not gonna impress me by throwing banalities and cliches around, like the word 'racist'. 1/ you don't even know me, I might be married to Pocahontas, and be living with sheep and aborigines down under in Australia, for all you know. Love'
ReplyDeleteem all, if you must know. So be careful before you throw accusations around, son.
Fact remains, lack of education is what makes Chavez sell his crap. don't be so surprised, or act "democratically" as un burguesito que se la da de popular. Fact is you and everyone on this blog were lucky to be a lot better educated than our beloved indios in Venezuela, cappice? So let's not pretend to be nice. Yes, Indio es indio, and that's why Chavez rules. He's one of the majority of our unfortunate bruticos, pasame una empanadita e cazon, chamo. Y que viva Raul castro...
BTW, try and sell the concept to the Germans, or any relatively educated country, that Gaddafi is cool and Cuba is a great, and all, and that Capitalism and the Western World are messed up. They will start laughing in no time, in unison, these days. You can only get away with that kind of crap in under-educated places like Venezuela. The anachronistic, extrapolated comparison is ridiculous, to put it mildly.
ReplyDeleteSledge,
ReplyDeleteActually, people anywhere fall for their own people more than others. So: Germans would fall for someone from their cultural circle. And after what happened in WW2, they won't fall so easily, lots of alarm signals are installed within their system. But there are quite a lot of people in the West who do think, one way or the other, that the West is messed up, even if in other ways.
Germans back in 1933 would have looked at a Chávez in disdain as well. People like the Mufti of Jerusalem were at most useful idiots for the Nazis, who some him with contempt. Why?
RabiBulla,
ReplyDeleteMy attack on Daniel was half-serious, half on sports. I agree with him about Gaddafi and about Chávez. What I do say is oil prices are a little bit more complicated and there are more players there who have a more active role than many think. I am also very shocked at the way the West has dealt with towards such a bastard as Gaddafi...amateuristic, at best.
You just can't compare 1930's Germany to today's Venezuela! Might as well concoct a splendid mix of arroz con concha con mango criollo, y un toquecito de cilantro, tamarindo, y queso guayanes, y que no se te olvide una salchicha alemana en la Colonia Tovar... lol
ReplyDeleteIn the 30's, Germans didn't even have TV's, let-alone other modern sources of info... it was all snail-pace propaganda, in the middle of a huge economic crisis, they were brain-washed in very different circumstances. And in many ways, they were "Indios" themselves at the time, if you compare them to a modern, 2011, Venezuelan campesino or poor guy.
LACK OF INFO. was the common denominator, if you have to find one. Ignorance. Lack of education. Lack of communication. Same difference.
Again, I have no clue as to why you would compare Hitler to Chavez, across the pond, 80 year later, but anyway.., they both sold their aberrant crap to ignorant people, so I'll give you that much.
Arroz con mango. Apples and oranges. Times have changed at incredible speed, exponentially, by the second, especially in the past couple decades. Sadly, in some countries like ours, many people are way behind, ignorant, uneducated, poor, corrupt. That's where Indio, uneducated tyrants like Chavez can still thrive NOWADAYS, they would not have a chance in any other half-developed nation where most people can add 2 + 2 in a laptop.
Jesus...is it so hard to grasp?
ReplyDeleteI have often made a clear distinction between the Hitler time and Chávez, but for this issue the reference was relevant.
So that is why when some people have talked about Farías being the Gauleiterin of Caracas I have put forward my reservations.
But I wanted to show it was not purely about the Indian thing and it is not in someone's blood or the like.
Now INDIO is a term referring to ethnicity, one way or the other. Don't come up with "yeah, but there was India like in Delhi and Western Indies and then there is the third concept".
You would react otherwise if the term were Europea, white, whatever.
Indian IS a term very much related to an ethnicity.
This is not politically correct detail. This is important.
Fact is this is what happens in a nation where people are less connected to others, where there is no open debate, where there is no tradition of democracy.
The Russians right now also have an autocratic regime, even if it is very different from Chavismo. And Russians do have Internet. But then they are mostly trapped by being monolingual and they do not have a tradition of debate and pluralism.
Those are the issues.
Calling people "Indios" to refer to their lack of acquaintance with pluralism, with debate, with state of the law is by all means racist, bigotted, biased.
Actually: those guys had less of a bias and often were eventually more open to pluralism than the Spaniards who got there.
The big difference was technology, which diverged a lot mainly by some reasons you can read about in Jared DIamond's book Guns, Germs and Steel.
You're sounding very Indio to me Kepler. Educated or not, in this case. Lighten up, and join the clueless international tribe.
ReplyDeleteJust make sure you make more sense next time, or I might have to call you 'pretentious aborigen', with all due respect, sire, if that makes you happier.
Last note here: Connotations are what you want them to be. It's all in our heads. "Indio" or countless other words may suggest multiple things to various people, in certain contexts, that other people don't even perceive, or interpret anywhere near the same way.
ReplyDeleteFor instance, I don't dare use 'burguesito guevon altanero', here, because it might be misinterpreted. Especially by our not so-fortunate readers of the 5th world. Y donde esta mi reina pepiada??
Whatever.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if someone were saying here "they are like that because they are Jewish, so Jewish" - don't get mad at me, I am using Jewish in another concept...
Por eso es que tenemos a Chávez...sigue diciendo indio...y agrega "mono", "tierrudo" y lo demás...everything in context
End of conversation from me.
@ Kepler:
ReplyDelete"Tierrudo" o "Tierruo"
Two different connotations
kepler
ReplyDeletehummmm... if i take already ombrage at people confusing obama and chavez and lina ron with nnaci pelosi, i guess you know what i intend to tell you....
@ Daniel: Totally off topic, please dedicate a post to the unbelievable picture of Bolibanana Republic VTV presented yesterday. By way of Government hacking personal phone lines of an opposition party during a presidential campaign, and publishes a personal conversation between two opposition activists, such conversation is totally irrelevant, meaning it is not a threat to the state, or person, or organization. However this scene paint exactly what is wrong in Venezuela, they are being recorded, surveyed while they try to democratically remove an un democratic and totalitarian regime. I give ZERO chance to the opposition in an electoral battle against this government, unless Chavez presence is required in hell before election time here in earth.
ReplyDelete"According to RIA NOVOSTI, the construction of the Kalashnikov factory is proceeding according to plan. The factory should be finished and running by 2011. The Venezuelan regime got a loan for over 2.2 billion dollars just to be able to get this factory and buy some other toys for its military honchos."-Quote from
ReplyDelete2010 July- Venezuela and Europa
"IKCO will begin construction of the factory within a month, projecting its completion within two years, Moj news agency quoted Soleimani as saying.
ReplyDeleteSoleimani said the plant will be able to produce 100,000 automobiles a year.
Venirauto, an Iran-Venezuela joint factory, started assembling IKCO's Samand sedans in Venezuela in 2006. Iran has a 51% stake in the factory while Venezuela holds 49 percent of the shares"-news from
Sept. 2010 -note:
should be complete in a couple of years...
Well this has been interesting to read. What a bunch of PC milquetoasts y'all are. "Oh, please don't think I'm racist or anti-Jewish" or anti-whatever your media programming does not allow you to talk about.
ReplyDeleteI said nothing in support of Gaddafi, other than to point out that seemingly he has managed Libya's finances pretty well. Mentioning that Goldman Sachs had screwed the pooch with 100 billion he placed with them, well folks that's a clue toward motivation, as are all of the free and clear assets Libya has, including water, oil, and gold.
I'd also point out that I've never seen any real indication that the people of N Africa understand, appreciate, or want democracy, and that probably applies to Venezuela as well. Who wants 51% of the media-brainwashed ignoramuses in their neighborhood deciding what everyone else has to do? It's an interesting idea that doesn't work in practice, same as communism. The scum always rises to the top anyway.
NATO is doing nothing to make my world or anyone's world a better place, and if you think that is even a tiny part of the motivation for trying to take over Libya, more fool you.
m_astera-C'mon,pal. You said-you didn't say anything supporting Quadaffi- then you proceeded to say more..there it is.
ReplyDeleteAnd, where do you "get off" saying "Venezuelans probably don't want democracy either"
You -Marxist troll.You certainly smell up a room...
I KNOW I smell a who!!
Rabbi B-
ReplyDeleteBefore I ask what evidence you have that Venezuelans want democracy, I'd have to ask if you understand what democracy is. The USA was not set up as a democracy, but rather as a republic. You could check out Plato and some more recent writers to learn the difference, but Plato pretty much nailed it: A democracy will vote themselves the beneficiaries of the public treasury.
As for calling me a Marxist, surely you must be joking? I'm an anarchist, through and through. I tend to look down on you government worshipers, of whatever stripe.
Spare us the "butcher of Tripoli" propaganda, please. No one plays nice in that part of the world.
ReplyDeleteM astera -what a maroon you are.